Salvation Army Media Relations Director: Gays Should Be Put to Death

Posted by Kevin Farrell on Jun 25, 2012 in Oh Hell No! | 174 comments

We’ve written many times in the past that if you’re both gay and a donor to the Salvation Army, you must also be crazy.

It’s not just that the Salvation Army doesn’t support the full equality of LGBT people. It’s not even the fact that the organization has a documented history of refusing aid to gay people in need.

It’s the fact that the Salvation Army’s own inter-company literature calls for the death of gay people. And Media Relations Director Major Andrew Craibe, the man responsible for creating good press for SA, has no qualms about advocating this policy live on the radio.

RYAN: . . . that says, according to the Salvation Army, that [they] deserve death. How do you respond to that, as part of your doctrine?

CRAIBE: Well, that’s a part of our belief system.

RYAN (cutting in): So we should die.

CRAIBE: You know, we have an alignment to the Scriptures, but that’s our belief.

RYAN: Wow. So we should die.

…

RYAN: It’s going into Romans again . . . I accept that you’re out there wanting to help people . . . I don’t accept that this sexuality that is part of my DNA is a choice. I also don’t accept the support of any religion in a financial sense, and this is what the gay community is up in arms about: that you’re proposing in your religious doctrine and the way that you train — this is partof your training of your soldiers — that because we’re gay, that — we must die. If you go to Romans, book 1, 18-32, it’s all there, mate. I mean, how can you stand by that? How is that Christian?

CRAIBE: Well, well, because that is part of our Christian doctrine –

RYAN (interrupting): But how is that Christian? Shouldn’t it be about love?

CRAIBE: — that’s our understanding of that. Well, the love that we would show is about that: consideration for all human beings to come to know salvation –

RYAN: Or die. . .

CRAIBE: Well, yes.

Give the ugly exchange a listen if you can stomach it. And please take the Salvation Army off your Christmas gift list this year for good.

(via Truth Wins Out)

http://www.facebook.com/people/Will-Reely/557492879 Will Reely

Scumbag.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Joslin-MJunk/100002012500030 Joslin M’Junk

OK so My job makes me work with the Salvation Army… I hate doing it I dispose that they are hurting people by neglecting LGBTQIF people… I do data management for homeless shelters and service providers… there was issues with them and they tried to refuse to use the gender identity options of transgendered.. The USA HUDD Equality requirements states they need to have that on the list in order to gain any grants. They are a horrid part of my job and hate it when i hear them say God bless you… i just state back My the deity you choose bless you.
http://twitter.com/GothicHarajuku Angela Botticelli

This makes me cry. It keeps reminding me how uphill my battle is.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Bonny-C-Jueden/1256972188 Bonny C. Jueden

That is the most hateful of all, the Salvation Army will never get another dime from me. This has gone way over the top, poor dumb BASTURD.
http://www.facebook.com/chris.temple.969 CHris Temple

When was this done?
http://www.facebook.com/samuel.atwood.79 Samuel Atwood

It is fine with me. Just another bigot and his stupid beliefs that hates me. I never liked their F&*#?%! bell ringing anyway.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Charles-Stearns/100001316360952 Charles Stearns

I have zero respect for any Starvation Army crap, and think every public program they receive grants through should kick them out. Frankly, I don’t even buy the old excuse of “but they do help those in need”. Bullshit. They don’t. They give ‘aid’ (poorly planned, poorly executed ‘one-size-fits-all’ programs developed decades ago and not updated or expanded to meet newer challenges) wrapped in a big-ass bundle of bigotry and hatred that helps no one.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1546624193 Jon Levy

This Christmas whenever you see a bell-ringer let them know what the organization they are helping stands for. And drop a few condoms in their bucket so they can stop breeding more hate.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1032278476 Lizzy Leigh Vasquez

Make some small pro-gay tracts to go in their buckets and make them look like dollar bills.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Theresa-Darklady-Reed/581698361 Theresa ‘Darklady’ Reed

Queer Bucks!

Put them in the buckets and when they count them the bills could say that the amount listed on the buck has been donated to a DIFFERENT charity.

http://twitter.com/Morbidorable lօνε♥ժεlս×ε

or just drop a lit match in there. that’s what i’d do.

http://www.facebook.com/hxcsteve Stephen Longcoy

I really wish you guys would take a moment and maybe find a few articles about all the good stuff the salvation army does and not take one guys craziness as official policy of TSA.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=24707380 Aaron Daniel

I keep coming back to this thread because it’s just so darn interesting! Anyway, as I said in a previous post, does the fact that the SA does good things for some change my opinion or decision to not support them? Eh, not really. There are numerous charities that also do good in the community, but have no dogma attached to it…that even preach love for everyone!
As for one guy’s craziness, he’s a spokesperson and Major for the organization! He is the conduit between the SA and general public. He learned this rhetoric from somewhere. And he didn’t just pull it out of his ass! I’ve read the document that was referred to in the program. It’s in black and white! I argue that it’s a major portion of the SA’s beliefs, as they picked those specific quotes from the Bible to incorporate into their Handbook of Doctrine.
So am I offended when people post, “Oh, it’s ok. You gays should just suck it up because they give away some portion of their donations.” Yeah I am. WE DESERVE BETTER. We can find better charities and organizations that love, care, and nurture ALL communities and embrace diversity.
http://profile.yahoo.com/3PYGXSWNO47AW6LUZAUH2ZFLVI just another brat

He’s not just “one guy” – he’s the MEDIA RELATIONS DIRECTOR – a high-placed, paid member. That’s like saying that the Secretary of Defense is “just some guy in government”.

Mark Bury

This MRD is positioned in Australia and the United States Salvation Army is repulsed by his statements as well issuing a statement of love and acceptance for all people, this includes all LGBT communities.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=520048881 Angela T. Tsames

This isn’t the first I’ve heard of this. If you identify as Christian and give Christian charities money you should know what their ideology really is. Divorced? Having pre-marital sex? On birth control or with someone who is? These people will take your money and still believe that you should burn for all eternity.
Heck, your money’s as good as anybody elses. Go ahead still support these fuckers.
Are they telling Africans that condoms spread Aids? Guess you don’t care… rather not know, huh? Ignorance is bliss.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Savio/100001826954767 Daniel Savio

It IS the official policy, or did you not read the article?
http://www.facebook.com/rantingsteve Stephen J. Sarma-Weierman

“It’s the fact that the Salvation Army’s own inter-company literature calls for the death of gay people.”This “one guy’s craziness” is the official position of the Salvation Army.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=607604147 Ric Parish

One guy? He’s not a cashier, He is the head of Media Relations. The voice of the organization!

Schlukitz

An inconvenient fact! LOL

http://twitter.com/WriterWriter Lady Julie d’Glencoe

”One guy’s crazyness,” is the OFFICIAL POLICY of the Salvation Army. That means it is the accepted and expected policy of ALL members of the Sally Anne. Ye ken? OFFICIAL POLICY.

Apart from that, Stephen, I hereby challenge you to dig up just ONE thing – ONE – the salvation army does that could not be done by a secular/humanist/atheist person or organisation. ONE. Do it.

This organisation has hate, death and torture as core aspects of their policies. Their media guy speaks for the entire organisation. THAT reality should be YOUR over-riding reality, because NOTHING else they do is exclusive to them. There are hundreds of other organisations doing much more good for people without policy-based hate as a foundation.
http://www.facebook.com/reptyle216 Brad Johnson

No one denied for one second that the SA is a charitable organisation that has done great things. But if bigotry is part of their company philosophy, we have every right to want nothing to do with them.
http://twitter.com/NakkiNyan NakkiNyan

They also have a long history of breaking the 501(c)(3) law that states you can’t keep more than 30% of the donations for administrative costs, they keep approximately 80% with little variance. Now if they actually used 80% for good instead of legislation against LGBT and other laws then I could see your “about all the good stuff” argument, until then they are the single worst non-profit in existence.

Schlukitz

I’m with you. I don’t buy into that “about all the good stuff” argument either. It’s so dismissive!

As if a few well-intentioned acts of kindness make-up for all the harm and destruction that their not so well intentioned and hateful acts create.

It comes off sounding like the old, “Aside from the shooting, Mr. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

Jessica W

Oh yeah, because donating over 80% of your profits to anti-gay legislature and anti-gay politicians, and refusing to help people in need who are gay, affiliated with gays, or not Christian, is so good! . . . . . -___-

Mark Bury

No, it;s NOT good, but when your house burns down who is the first persons to offer you shelter when your home burns down? I stand by what I said, that we should have an organization not to oppose but do the same work they do but in a more accepting light.
Jessica W

My neighbors…
If you came to the salvation army and they knew you were gay (or even thought you were gay) they would not give your ass shelter. Cruel but true.
Schlukitz

Oh, puleeeze! When my next door neighbor’s house burned down in West Milford, NJ, in the mid-nineties, the Salvation was nowhere to be seen.

It I was the first person, her openly gay neighbor who allowed her, her boyfriend and their collie to live in my house (I had already retired to Florida in 1993) for a year while it was being rebuilt and lent them $3,000 to buy new clothes for themselves since they lost everything in the fire.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507500943 Mary Broussard

Actually no they don’t show up…you’re wrong

http://www.facebook.com/carlton.bigelow Carlton Bigelow

Sorry Stephen, but doing good things while also doing bad things does not mean it is ok to keep doing the bad things. I learned that from my Mommy. This “one guys craziness” you speak of IS their official policy. It comes direct from their Media Relations Director Major Andrew Craibe.
http://www.facebook.com/mlinn21 Martha Linn

We all know what they say they do, but they don’t help everyone. and they actively work against others. ie: gay people.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3T2CB3IARM5F76NGDD53AC6454 easmachine

Just so you know, most bell ringers are poor, unemployed folks working a seasonal minimum wage job(bell ringing). Most aren’t members of the Salvation Army Church and need the money. Your idea isn’t going to do anything but make their jobs harder. But that’s ok, since you’re being clever.

If you wonder why straight people like me who are progressive and activist have trouble convincing others to respect your human rights, maybe it’s because you pick fights with people who don’t need to be picked on. In the name of being clever.

Schlukitz

Spoken like a true kapo. And in case you do not know what a kapo is, they are the Jews who assisted Hitler in carrying out his ethnic cleansing program. And like the Salvation Army, Hitler also thought that queers should be killed. It is estimated that over 10,000 gays were killed along with the Jews, Gypsies, mentally deficient, Jehovah’s Witness and other minority groups that were despised by him.

No one is picking on the poor bell ringers. Our beef is with the CEO’s who establish corporate policy and their disgusting comments and actions directed at the LGBT community.It appears that in your convoluted world, a few menial, low-paying jobs should take precedence to whether a large minority group should live or die. Your thoughtless comment does little to convince gay people like me, that you are making any attempt to convince others to respect our human rights.

It is you who is picking a fight so that you can use it as an excuse to your own lack of respect and the animus you have just displayed toward the LGBT community. Straight allies like you, who dismiss death threats from members of your own community hurled toward gays, we can do without.

xxsssxx13

This guy is so close-minded… but these hosts do as well. They are not open to the idea of choice/DNA. Hopefully both will open their minds to understanding other’s viewpoints. As an organization, Salvation Army clearly needs to catch up with the times.
http://www.facebook.com/jamie.l.balyeat Jamie Lee Balyeat

I know it sounds bad, but I think that it’s easy to overreact to this. Yes, the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, and if you are serious about your Christianity, then you can’t deny it. Yes, the Bible says that gays should be put to death-it’s part of the laws given to Israel in Leviticus. However, you have to keep in mind that a LOT of people were put to death-if you cheated on your fiance, if you picked up sticks on a Sabbath, if you swore-you could be put to death for many reasons. I know that sounds harsh, but read through Israel’s history and you’ll realize why God had to be so strict with them. They were a very stubborn people then. (Because if they broke one law, like it says in James, they’ve broken them all-it means they have no respect for God, and this attitude spread and caused civil disorder unless those people were killed). How you interpret those scriptures now differs between Christians. I know a lot of people who believe we should restore Levitical law to modern day government. I disagree with that. I think those religious laws were to be applied to a religious nation. We’re not a nation based on religion, but freedom. But, if you take the position that we should apply old testament law to modern day government, then yes, executing homosexuals would be part of what you believe the government should do (obviously that won’t ever happen in this country, so it’s not an issue-as long as they’re not taking the law into their own hands and killing people or letting it get in the way of offering help and love to others, it shouldn’t matter what they believe). Salvation Army might believe that, but it doesn’t necessarily make them bad people. It just means they have a difference of opinion. Nobody should judge them based on their religious beliefs. According to scripture, we’re all deserving of death-that’s why Christ died for us. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Joey Willoughby

Except that their own literature states homosexuals should be put to death, and they don’t find anything wrong with that, nor do that plan to change it… meaning if it were up to them, we would be like Iran, hanging people just for being gay, and that is absolutely NOT okay and I, as a homosexual, will not be contributing what I earn, through sweat and tears everyday trying to be seen as nothing more than an equal citizen in the country, to ANYONE who thinks otherwise, period….and neither should any person who calls themselves a LGBT member or ally.
http://www.facebook.com/jeffrey.hull.104 Jeffrey Hull

Why are all the laws of Laviticus dismissed except for the death of homosexuals?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=24707380 Aaron Daniel

You’re picking and choosing what you can follow from the Bible! There lies the problem. How can you ignore the Bible when it says to kill naughty children, or to not eat shellfish, or to not wear garments made from two differing fabrics, but then choose to condemn homosexuality? If you’re going to live by the principles of the Bible and use it to justify your bigotry, then you should be following the entire set of teachings and principles. Your Holy Book can’t be divinely inspired in some places and not in others, can it?
As for gays contributing to the SA. Why would be contribute to an organization that condemns us to death, when there are plenty of other organizations in the world with no dogmatic propaganda attached to it, and still supplies help to those in need?
Lastly, the SA as an organization has ALREADY judged me for a trait that I have no control over, and didn’t ask for, although I wouldn’t change now anyway. Don’t sit behind your computer and lecture us about not judging them based on their religion. I haven’t advocated death for them, yet they would for us. We have every right to be angry, speak up, and channel our hard earned money to those who actually preach love, inclusion, and compassion.

Lucas Wagner

x2

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1351817835 Chessia Trick

I like to cite the line that says “God created man in his image”
http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Mueller/717295711 Eric Mueller

I appreciate what you’re saying here, Jamie, but they also have refused to support gay people and denied them aid. As far as I’m concerned, that’s putting their (homophobic, gay-hating) words into action… so even if they didn’t make it perfectly clear that they WANT ME AND MY GAY FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO DIE, they’re still not an organization that I want to suport. I’m fine with them having different beliefs. I’m not fine with anyone supporting them when they’re so openly and blatantly hateful. That DOES make them bad people, and I’m not sure how you can say it does not.
Nan Bell

I utterly can’t believe you are standing up for them. Would you like it if they came up to YOUR son or daughter who was gay and told them they should DIE? Are you going say to your HURT daughter or son that oh they are entitled to believe that YOU should die? Or that that THEY are not BAD PEOPLE? GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT FREAKING BAD PEOPLE EITHER BUT YOU HAVE PASTORS AND EVERY RELIGIOUS FREAK TELLING THEM THEY SHOULD DIE?

Jamie, I feel sorry for you. it’s NOT OK to threaten an entire group of people with death. You are awfu
http://www.facebook.com/people/Emily-Phillips/848844856 Emily Phillips

It doesn’t say it’s wrong. It says a man having sex with a man as you would with a woman (ie penetration) is an abomination. Just like eating shellfish. Most abominations are things that would make you sick. Guess what? Anal sex can cause a perforation, which can lead to death if you don’t get medical treatment. If you’re living in the desert 3000 years ago, it’s a certain death sentence. Also, your people really can’t stand to leave you. And as for a woman at the time, putting things inside of themselves (a woman having sex with a woman as she would with a man) that were foreign could lead to infection or, again, perforation that, given the right conditions could be deadly. If you’re going to take just that one thing, you may as well admit you’re not a Christian. You’ve picked and chosen bits and pieces to believe and then you’re ignoring the rest just like you would if you were visiting a cafeteria style restaurant. So, if being gay is bad because the Bible says it’s an abomination, then I hope you’ve never cut your hair or shaved your beard. I hope you’ve never mixed two types of fabrics together, and I hope you’ve never, ever eaten any kind of shellfish. Otherwise, you’re just freaking doomed, man.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=580827090 Daniel Leyva

The Bible has been misinterpreted, mistranslated and misunderstood. This is not an “overreaction” this is a normal reaction to a human being living in the 21st Century, in which such ideas are not applicable anymore. The Bible was put together in the Roman Empire to serve a political purpose, it was manipulated since the very beginning… so reacting to this in not the same as “overreacting” (which implies that the reaction is unjustified). I am a Christian, and I advocate for the real meaning of the Bible in the 21st Century… which is a matter of interpretation, not to follow an outdated code of law that serves no purpose, since science has advanced in the last 20 years. Nothing regarding the Bible is as black and white as fundamentalist want us to believe… there is more to it.
April Cote

An opinion would be “I do not like homosexuals or their beliefs”…saying they should die becomes more of an opinion I think. Especially when people are putting that into action. It is ones right to have an opinion, but when it leads to action of death or denial of human rights it goes past an opinion doesn’t it?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000447312471 Mac Macaroo

Sorry, Jamie Lee, but you’ll have to give people an acceptable rationale…and by that, I mean something other than Pascal’s Wager… to accept that the biblical God exists before you start explaining his reasoning. You’d think he could do that himself instead of relying on thousands upon thousands of gonzo interpretations. Not all of them can be right, but it’s certainly possible that all of them are wrong.

I wouldn’t count on it being so obvious that governments…not excluding ours… will not execute homosexuals. They’ve done it before, and some of our own Godly citizens have advocated it as well as defending those who’ve killed gays.

Finally and at the risk of repeating myself, where in the Bible did The Christ say anything AT ALL about homosexuality?

You’ll also have to explain how you figure Christ died when the entire belief is based on the premise that he *didn’t.* Sacrifices are generally held to be irrevocable. That’s what makes them, you know, sacrifices. According to the belief, the Christ is not dead and has lost nothing, yes? At most, he suffered a really bad weekend for “our” sins

As for the rest of your post, I don’t think the S.A. is necessarily comprised of “bad” people. I think it is comprised of *conditioned* people who apparently see no reason to go beyond the phrase, “we are to obey.”

Not sure why BibleGod is alleged to have given us these seemingly massive brains if the intention was to not use them.
Schlukitz

That’s what I detest most about all religions. They are so obsessed with death and killing.

And that is something to live for?

DasDutt

Nice to hear an intelligent debate instead of name calling and rhetoric. These are Aussies? They are so civilized.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MJNL2GDAI7LABVXRNONBZFJRJA James George

ALL RELIGION IS A MIND VIRAL INFECTION= THE CURE? REASON, CRITICAL THINKING, LOGIC AND THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. The systems that bring real solutions and cures to our world, over this bronze age perversion of reality as we know it.

David K.

You should apply a little critical thinking to your own views since ALL religion is a rather grandiose term. If you look beyond your own prejudiced views you’d find that religion and people of religion can be quite different. Some good, some bad. Some wonderful, some terrible. You are free, of course, to believe as you like, but to pretend like you know all the answers or that all religion is this or that isn’t logical or reasonable. Even science itself is based on unproveable assumptions about the world we live in and how it works.

Bigotry, prejudice, and small mindedness are the real infection, and it can affect people of ANY belief system, be it Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Agnostic, or Atheist.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P7QH6444YHPZYNI7FQBSTOQIHQ Sully

It’s easier to hate when you have a Holy Book telling you it is OK.

The quickest way to make good people do evil things is to sprinkle in some religion.

There is nothing good that religion brings to the table that can’t be achieved through secular means, and plenty of rotten things that can only be brought around by thinking that scripture is infallible.

Toss religion in the dumpster and the world will be a better place.

The good religious people will continue to be good.
But the asshats won’t have the Bible to hide behind

http://twitter.com/C4bl3Fl4m3 Cable Flame

Not every religion has a holy book that tells you that hate is ok. Nor does every religion believe that scripture is infallible. Hell, I lean atheist, and even I know that. Have you ever learned about Buddhism or Unitarian Universalism?
http://slates.wildfireweb.com/1744527638 Jack Skye

You’re making the assumption that all religions have holy books and discourage critical thinking, you are either unaware of the diversity of non-monotheistic and non-theistic religions or you are suggesting that only mainstream religions qualify as religions. Either way your argument is ethnocentric and smacks of colonialism. Be careful you don’t become what you hate.

Charles Mueller

That’s rich. The pot calling the kettle black.

youmustbejoking

I do not pretend to know everything about all religions, but I have no problem with people practicing their religion as long as they don’t do harm to children or their followers and they don’t try to make the rest of us to live under their belief system. That is where I draw the line. The evangelicals are trying to force all of us to live under their beliefs and that is what I can’t tolerate.
tony romo

reminded of the south park episode “our science is Superior to your science” war between the otters and the humans. the asshats will simply find something else to hide behind, like the eugenics movement or the idea that black people have smaller brains than whites, so they must be less intelligent

http://twitter.com/InspFreethought Mike

Of course, but to vastly different degrees. Rational people are much less likely to resort to batshit crazy pseudo-morality.

The last time a major humanist/atheist organization called for the fencing in of gay people, the prohibition of women from holding power, or the death of homosexuals?

Yeah, I didn’t think so.
ColleenPatriciaWilliams

The problem is that organized religion, of any stripe, ends up being a monolithic thing with no room for humanity, just dogma.
I would also disagree that science is an unprovable. There are theories that are not confirmed, and there are hard, cold facts.
God is an unprovable, with no way to prove or disprove, and that is the basis of scientific thinking. We observe, form a theory and then set out to disprove our own theories.
That does NOT happen in religion. I’ve never heard of scientists doing honor killings, nor have I heard of scientists blowing up abortion clinics. Nor do we have rabid packs of Fundamentalist Scientists picketing funerals in sadistic glee.
Yes, there is bad and good in all things including science, but organized religion has a lot to answer for.
Science can be argued, it can be debated and it can be revised, as that is what we in the sciences do when confronted with data that shows something to be different from what we first thought. That is the point.
There is no revision of religion. It’s pretty much their way or no way and that is a huge problem.
We can point to many examples of scientists like Mengele, who used science as an excuse for his sadism. We can point to the Tuskegee Experiments and we teach these as evil and not to be repeated.
I have yet to hear a pastor teach that it is evil to persecute those not of their faith and to not do that.
I completely agree that bigotry, a fear driven response, is in all faiths and in those with no faith.
I see fear as the biggest problem of them all. Xenophobia is not a pretty thing, it is the cause of almost all of the world’s problems, really.
phendraana

“Even science itself is based on unproveable assumptions about the world we live in and how it works.”

Are you being serious? Science is based on forming hypotheses & testing them to find out what IS true.
Schlukitz

The usual cover-your-ass bullshit, David K. Calling out and tongue-lashing the victim while totally ignoring the fact that the Salvation Army is guilty of bigotry, unfettered hatred and discrimination.

People like you are always to fast to trash those of us who are being bullied but, never, ever, have a word to say against the bullies.

Let me ask you just one question, David K. How would you feel and react if an organization called for your death, simply for being heterosexual? And give that question some serious thought before you toss back a “stock” reply that side-steps the issue.

http://twitter.com/C4bl3Fl4m3 Cable Flame

You obviously have no experience or knowledge of Unitarian Universalism. It’s a non-creedal religion that UPHOLDS & EXAULTS the value of reason, critical thinking, logic & the scientific method, right in the statement of principles.

Make sure you’re familiar with ALL religions before dissing them all. (Not trying to convert you, just making sure you’re being fair.)
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M4T66MAV6GFK3CAIRCYCD6IQDU Robert

idiot, religion Particularly the Catholics have promoted Science and Medicine. In fact the big bang theory is a theory provided by a Priest Physist from Belgium. Your view is very narrow.

LanceCS

LOLOLOLOLOL

WHAT IS THE DARK AGES.

WHAT IS LOCKING SCIENTISTS UP BECAUSE THEY DISAGREED WITH “CHRISTIAN SCIENCE.”

WHAT IS HANGING AND BURNING SCHIZOPHRENIC PEOPLE DUE TO SO-CALLED DEMONIC POSSESSIONS.
Schlukitz

Yes, idiot caller…religion, particularly the Catholics so promoted Science and Medicine, that they placed Galileo under house arrest for the balance of his life.

They are called books. Look into them.

http://www.facebook.com/christelle.remy.5055 Christelle Remy

Thank you, I am never ever giving my money or support or admiration to the salavation army again …
http://www.facebook.com/bradley.blalock Bradley Blalock

My Grandfather got a Sally award for 25 years of volunteer service. He loved me for who I am as a gay man and he was very kind to my partner at the time. This news is really disturbing, hurtful and totally misguided.
PANDREWCLINE

Alexandria, Virginia (June 25, 2012) – The Salvation Army in the United States fully and emphatically rejects the statements made by the media director of The Salvation Army Australia Southern Territory regarding the LGBT community. The Salvation Army opposes any discrimination, marginalization or persecution of any person. There is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for any reason including his or her sexual orientation. We stand firmly upon our mission to meet human needs in His name without discrimination. The Salvation Army in Australia has also rejected the opinions stated and provided additional information which you can view here.
We deeply apologize for the hurt that these statements have caused.

Get your facts straight…if not your lifestyle….

http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Collins/100000664389305 Chris Collins

“Get your facts straight…”

You know, I would fully agree with you if the Salvation Army didn’t have a history of trying to discriminate against homosexuality. Anyways, have they removed the offending piece in their handbook/guide? See, it doesn’t matter if the organization goes, “No! We love Gays! Now, avoid that little piece that condemns you to death, we really don’t mean it! It just…decorates our handbooks!”
Schlukitz

“Get your facts straight…if not your lifestyle…”

Thank you, Pandrewcline, for your non-apology.

I could have accepted the first half of your comment, had it not been for the last segment disclaimer.

ROLLANDO

Uhm … look at it this way, all through recorded history and before, there have always been gays/lesbians since the dawn of mankind. And more likely to be to the end of mankind. Is it not possible that God has something else in mind? Who is to say that this is not a test for both straights and homosexuals? As Christians it is our core beliefs that one of God’s Commandments is “Thou shall not kill!!” If the “The Salvation Army” takes this stand kill the gays, then the organization is a fraud since it would not be saving gays but eliminating them. Sounds more like Nazism, no?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1351817835 Chessia Trick

May not be gay but this is rediculous. If God is “All knowing and all loving” and he “created man in his image” then God is a Wiccan Buddist Christian Muslim Gay Straight Bi Trans Jewish man…
http://profile.yahoo.com/4JWAPGTAUR4KE5CYDD4TPSBZVA Corey

How sad. And there are people crazy enough to stand out in the bitter cold, and beg for money to give to an organization of people who are bitter and cold. So sad how people are used by the masses without even caring, or thinking about, what they are being used for. I am so sick of having people’s so-called “religious beliefs” shoved in my face constantly, when they are only putting their own twist on it and using it for hatred. Why should what someone else “believes” change what I believe? It’s almost comical, but has created a problem that is way to serious to laugh about.
http://www.facebook.com/jamie.l.balyeat Jamie Lee Balyeat

I’m a Christian. And I don’t know much about Muslim theology, but I do know part of it says that Christians and Jews should be killed (or atleast so I’ve heard). Are they wrong? Yes, I believe they are. But if a Muslim believes this because of their religion, I don’t blame them. And I don’t hate them. And I’m not going to treat them differently because of their personal religious beliefs. And if there was a Muslim charity organization that publicly admitted that they believe in passages of their theology that say that Christians are deserving of death, I wouldn’t stop supporting that organization just because I disagree with their religion. I’d definitely look into it further, to make sure the money is going to where it’s needed and not to some effort to exterminate Christians and Jews, but as long as that money is being used to help people, I’d keep supporting it. I’m not going to let their personal religious beliefs stop me from giving money to a good cause. But what you decide to do is up to you. I personally think it would be rather disrespectful to put condoms in a donation box.

Vicki Behrens

I can’t believe anyone is seriously defending these people. “If a person believes, based on his or her religion, that boatloads of other innocent people who don’t share that religion should be killed, well, who am I to judge? I can’t blame them–it’s what their religion tells them!” Seriously? It seems prima facie obvious to me that someone who believes, for ANY reason, that large groups of other people who are not harming them should be killed is a horrible person. If your religion says, “Hey, killing other people because they’re different from us is good; it’s what God wants,” and you still choose to practice that religion, something is seriously wrong with you. You’re choosing to believe something hateful and insane and generally awful because you’re too much of an idiot to question your hateful and insane and awful religion.
Schlukitz

“I’m a Christian.”

“nuff said.

Miche Campbell

The Salvation Army in New Zealand has apologised for its previous stance of anti-LGBT discrimination. I hope the US organisation can find it in their hearts to follow suit.

Miche Campbell

Er. Australian. Either way.

As for those accusing people of “overreacting,” how are we expected to react to a representative of a powerful organisation saying people we love should be killed for loving someone the speaker (and therefore the organisation) doesn’t approve of them loving?

http://www.facebook.com/ron.laws86 Ron Laws

I used to feel quite bad that i never donated to the salvation army whenever the opportunity arose, now i’m glad i don’t…
http://www.facebook.com/kratos77 Jason Hall

@Jamie Lee Balyeat
So, if you publicly saw them executing an innocent person that is deemed
corrupt by their religious laws…you would walk right past the person
being executed and put money in their donation box? There’s nothing
wrong with believing what you believe…it’s your freedom, but it just
makes you another pawn in life. To try to remain neutral on something so
heinous is ridiculous. I realize that not all people are completely
corrupted by a doctrine written by men…not God, Himself. God and
Christ are both love…the hate that spreads through this world has been
seeded into religion by mankind. Religion has been corrupted since it’s
dawn to suit the propaganda of the periods in which it was written into
the various texts of the Bible. It is done so, because they know that a
lot of people will blindly follow it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Emily-Phillips/848844856 Emily Phillips

As an Atheist, I have to say, you’re being fairly ignorant. I agree that religion holds mankind back from achieving a great deal, but I think we’re going to have to accept that it’s always going to be here. The most we can do is try to convince people to mix logical reason in with their religion and to NEVER, EVER take what their pastor says as 100% truth without researching it. That’s what happened to these anti-gay people. They never, ever researched it. They just said, oh, well, Pastor John says it’s bad to be gay, so it must be true.
http://www.facebook.com/jamie.l.balyeat Jamie Lee Balyeat

Wow! I never said I HATED guys. Most of my closest friends are gay! I
love them. I love all people, regardless of orientation or race or
religion or anything else. I was just stating that there is a verse in
Leviticus that says that homosexuality is wrong. It’s part of my
religion, yes. Otherwise, I would be making out with a girl right now! I
would never hate somebody because of their orientation…….
Hating is against my religion. I believe in loving all people. We all
have different opinions. This is my personal religious belief and we
just disagree, it has nothing to do with hatred. Why should it cause
hatred or fights between anybody? I am tolerant towards gays and
atheists, can’t you all be tolerant towards me and my religious beliefs?
:/ Love y’all.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Mueller/717295711 Eric Mueller

“I am tolerant towards gays and

atheists, can’t you all be tolerant towards me and my religious beliefs?” — I agree with you. I hope you get a chance to see my reply to you on your previous comment.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P7QH6444YHPZYNI7FQBSTOQIHQ Sully

Leviticus says a lot of stupid things
LanceCS

I bet you also have lots of black friends, latino friends, transgender friends, etc, etc.

P.S: “Tolerance” is still hatred, e.g.: I am “tolerant” towards people of other races, but I personally do not accept them.
Schlukitz

” I am tolerant toward gays and atheists, can’t you all be tolerant toward me and my religious beliefs”?

Well now, ain’t that big of you. Spoken just life a self-loathing, GOProud, gay tea-bagger.

Well, Jamie, as a 75 years old gay man who is out and proud and not a member of any organization that preaches bigotry and hatred and has no need to apologize for being an atheist, I here to tell you that your tolerance feels like a bucket of shit that you just slung on us and which no amount of brushing off will rid me of.

Do us all a favor. Take your religion and your “tolerance” and stick it where the sun does not shine. We need neither your approval, acceptance or your “Love y’all treakle.”

Lucas Wagner

Leviticus doesn’t apply as christian law after jesus said that it isn’t and died for our sins. Leviticus is the 600 plus laws that Jewish people follow, in the OLD testament, Christianity is the NEW testament. You can choose to remain blind or you can see that by having your head so very far up your own ass you are breaking the sodomy laws I am sure you have ‘chosen’ not to follow from Leviticus.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1808784168 Karl Hajdasz

Completely outrageous. Do I have faith that people with such narrow views can assess true needs within the communities they operate? Absolutely not.
http://profile.yahoo.com/WBAPNQJKGE7P64WZCWINTWLXT4 Rebecca S

I cannot believe how much hatred people spew in the name of God. Yes, people… I’m a Bible-believing Christian. I believe acting on homosexual feelings is a sin. So are murder, lying, stealing, getting drunk, adultery, and a whole lot of other things that regular people do every day. And the “wages of sin is death”. But that DOES NOT MEAN that Gay people should be put to death!!!!!
Jesus said, Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. So, in that manner, JESUS is the only person who has that right! Not the Church, not the Salvation Army, not me.

LanceCS

“I believe acting on homosexual feelings is a sin.”

Ding-ding-ding, at least you are being honest with your bigotry!

Schlukitz

That. LOL

http://www.facebook.com/tskarda Tyler Skarda

how ignorant, I’m gay and used to volunteer for you ass clowns, u really have that stance, a drag queen shaking her bells is going to make more money for charity than you douche bags
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1303795727 Jean Nasiatka

I have given over $100/year to Salvation Army – no more!
robroberts2009

My wish for the Salvation Army is they be pit out of business and replaced by a truly charitable organization.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1324020182 Tsandi Crew

The ten commandments are also in the bible. Says nothing about not killing people unless they are gay or some other thing you are afraid of …. This guy protests too much.
http://twitter.com/damspahn Dam Spahn

Kill the Queers? This is why I don’t ever drop a penny into the red bucket. It goes to support the Salvation Army’s Nazi-Christian-hate.
ARTG33K74

How sad that people can’t work past fear and hate rhetoric.
http://www.facebook.com/david.lloydjones3 David Lloyd-Jones

It would be good to have the source for this. It looks as though it would be awfully strong if it wasn’t surrounded by all these ads and editorializing.

Could you e-mail me the source? dlj_canada AT hotmail DOT com.

Thanks in advance.

-dlj.
http://www.facebook.com/david.lloydjones3 David Lloyd-Jones

Alternately, you can send me the source by clicking on the surfer-wave at left. Ain’t technology wunnerful!

-dlj.
witoups

It appears that the link to Salvation Army Doctrines and Beliefs is no longer working.
http://www.facebook.com/kpryke1 Kyle Pryke

I am gay, I am christian. This is not my religion, this man is not a man of god. I pray for all people not matter the religion, sexuality or colour.

I plead and beg not to painted with the same brush as this man.
http://www.facebook.com/ian.turgeon Ian Turgeon

i’m not gay but i know people who are and this is discrimination and pushing the envelope a little to far. What happened to equality? Every one is free to decide what they want to do with their life. unless the fact someone is gay HURTS you and causes you pain LEAVE THEM ALONE! If you had a wife I didn’t like, for example, does that mean I have the right to say i want her to dieor to not have equal rights like me? No! all it is is just a form of control. and i really wish people would stop using religion as the base for all their arguments. Especially the U.S. Government. What happened to the seperation of church and state? Stop using religion as a reason for everything and just tell the truth. Oh yeah thats right I forgot. the truth is to difficult to tell. It’s so much easier to lie. Losers! Grow up and get a reality check. We are all human no matter our belief or sexuality. we all have the right to live and die just as much as the person standing next to us. it’s not up to ANYONE to decide who live and who dies accept GOD!

Schlukitz

Well said, Ian.

http://www.facebook.com/edmund.l.raines Edmund Raines

Love it! Love hearing the Sally Major calmly and cheerfully talking about choice and sin and this lady interviewer just sayin’ no! Huh-uh! Indignation is deserved here and often people are forced to think about what they are saying when met with this kind of incredulity and vehemence. I went through the Salvation army program in early adulthood and recieved help and support as their actual substance abuse program, devised by Dr. Edward Lataille, was very secularly focused leaving the individual to explore spirituality with or without the Salvation Army. I’m grateful but the gratitude soured early when the S.A. made a back room deal with Pres. W. Bush to be able to continue to refuse to hire Gay/Lesbian employees. It’s time for everyone to stop having to worry about this or that groups imaginary friend in the sky.
http://twitter.com/dougalcorn Doug Alcorn

It’s worth noting that Romans 1:18-32 isn’t just saying that gay people deserve death. It’s actually saying that we all are guilty of breaking God’s laws and we all deserve death. Follow on to Romans 2:1 (literally the very next verse) “You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad and you have no excuse!”

The good news (from Romans 3:22) is that “We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.”

Schlukitz

Spin that religious crap, Doug.

It’s pure hate speech, no matter how it’s said.

End of discussion.

HoratioT

Deeply disturbed that such an organization would make such un-God-like statements. I will never donate again to your cause. By the way, I am heterosexual.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Esha-Smitts/100000628502865 Esha Smitts

You can only be loved by God if you meet his requirements.

adm55

Wait, so god wants you to kill people who don’t meet his requirements? You people are as bad as the Muslims! Evil evil stuff

http://www.facebook.com/people/Esha-Smitts/100000628502865 Esha Smitts

You can only be loved by God if you meet his requirements..
PANDREWCLINE

If you can show me where that is in their current handbook, I’d be happy to cede your point of view. However, if you’re going to condemn people for changing their point of view, then I guess you still hate all psychiatry and psychology, mental health counselors, etc… and condemn them for the DSM-III diagnosis declaring homosexuality a mental illness.

If you can show me homeless people who have been turned away from substance abuse services from the Salvation Army, I’d be surprised and can probably guarantee the resignation of a Center of Hope Executive Director.

I’m glad to see churches evolving their positions on homosexuality. The Episcopalians, various Lutherans, Methodists, even some American Baptist (not Southern Baptist) have become welcoming congregations–like the Salvation Army IS. If you think being anti-same sex marriage is a now and forever requirement, you’d condemn every congregation short of MCC, which incidentally probably won’t exist in another 10 years because of the changes occuring in the theological positions in most denominations

If you choose to accept OLD interpretations of the bible out of context 2,000 later to a society that has changed, that’s your choice and you’re probably showing an anti-chritianity point of view against all christian organizations, not just the Salvation Army. And that is your right…donate to the secular insitution of your choice

It cracks me up there are many in the gay comunity who do this while attending AA meetings in churches and argue about spirituality versus religion and how religious organizationa have never helped them (except to host their “spiritual/not religious 12-step meetings).

Who is MORE guilty of the sin of inhospitality? Being unwilling to forgive people for views which they now admit were based on societal and historical norms (thus being able to celebrate and recognize that the Salvation Armyhas served THOUSANDS of homeless gays and lesbians in their substance abuse programs around the country). Or the Salvation Army which for years, even though it went against historical church teaching still practiced unconditional love and provided services to gays and lesbians, who now (probably influenced by years of providing those services) are making their church doctrine more inclusive.

Outside services in major metropolitan areas (where the requirement may be HIV+ AND a substance abuse problem in order to access services) the Salvation Army is frequently the only non-profit substance abuse provider in many communities less than 500,000 residents. Which means that methed-out gay Iowan in Des Moines might have no other options when he’s homeless and reaches out for help (a bed, a hot meal, a substance abuse counselor provided by the Salvation Army), not a suicide crisis hotline for teens that says “don’t kill yourself, you’ve got so much to live for things will change–I’m sorry its 10 below zero tonight, if you can get to south florida therre might be a sugar daddy who’ll take care of you….oh yeah, you are homeless in Des Moines…that means you have no money. ”

Besides, I guaratee you that the Trevor Project, a suicide hotline for teenagers, won’t show up at your house and take away your worn out sofa and last years fashions, they just want you to open your wallet…so there are ways to contribute to both organizations…it isn’t a case of having to choose one or the other.

Schlukitz

“Besides, I guarantee you that the Trevor Project, a suicide hotline for teenagers, won’t show up at our house and take away your worn-out sofa and last years fashions, they just want you to open your wallet.”

I have a news-flash for you. The Salvation Army would not even accept my not so worn out convertible sofa, even when I brought it to them them on the back of my pick-up truck. They pick and choose what they will or will not accept.

youmustbejoking

Perhaps we should also make complaints to the businesses that allow the bell ringers around Christmas and make sure to not drop any money in their buckets. There are plenty of other organizations who help the poor and disenfranchised at Christmas and year round. I think I might print up some cards to drop into their kettles instead of coin.
http://www.facebook.com/josephine.tinker Josephine Tinker

I am so sick and tired of folkss preaching HATE In The name Of GOd, they are the ones who are losingtheir souls, . I will never ever give them another dime after the way they treated the people form Katrina, so wishing DEATH on others has sealed your fate as non believers in the TRUE WORD, wash out your mind and heart for they both are nasty, dirty and killling people with your small minded hatred and you can noy love GOD and HATE OTHERS, if this is a lie then GOD in jis word said IT, God Bless Your Sin, hatred sick soul.
http://www.facebook.com/rogi.riverstone Rogi Riverstone

I’m Queer. And I’m homeless.
DO NOT DONATE TO SALVATION ARMY! I’d rather eat out of a dumpster and
sleep in a parking lot. which I do. than accept ANYTHING from those
haters.
astreight

I haven’t given a penny to the Salvation Army ever in my 67 years. I have always found them both creepy and manipulative. This hideous exchange confirms all my misgivings about this organization.

While living in Toronto on Yonge St. the SA decided to set up their band with loud speaker outside my apartment building every Friday evening. I travelled on business every week and needed my weekends for a social life. By Friday, I would be pretty tired and needed a nap before heading out for the evening. Having hymns blasted into my flat would have annoyed the hell out of me at the best of times. I tried telling them that this was a residential section of Yonge St. and their noise was NOT appreciated, but was ignored. So I called the city and made a stink about the noise. I was told that no one had every complained about the SA before. I replied “well I am complaining now and I want them gone”. Amazingly it worked and we were never polluted by them again.

I think it is not enough to just stop funding them. I think their dirty laundry needs to be complained about loudly in every possible media venue. At Christmas when you encounter them in malls and outside stores, give them a piece of your mind, make a fuss, let others know what kind of a nasty organization it is and why. Don’t be shy about it.
David Wrigley

Question: Do you feel you owe an apology or explanation to all those gay and Lesbian volunteers
and people your organisation supports?
The Salvation Army sincerely apologises to all members of the GLBT community and to all our
clients, employees, volunteers and those who are part of our faith communities for the offence
caused by this miscommunication.
Conclusion
The Salvation Army encompasses a diverse community with a wide range of opinions on human
sexuality and other subjects.
The leadership of The Salvation Army continues to reflect on Christian and Biblical tradition, and
especially on the themes of justice and mercy, to further deepen the understandings of our own
members and build a more healthy relationship with the GLBT community.
We pledge to continue to offer services to all Australians and to treat each person with dignity,
respect and non-discrimination.
Major Bruce Harmer
(Communications and Public Relations Secretary

LanceCS

Lol sure.

Gnatgnat

Your final wrap up was quite misleading.
He said he would love his children if they were gay, not reject them.Also he was talking about the choice to act on homosexual urges. Not the choice to have the urges. Therefore it is similar to an alcoholic choosing not to get drunk. Your headline is also terribly misleading. He didn’t come out and say Gays should be put to death. He said he believes the scriptures. The scriptures say that any sin deserves death and only salvation through Jesus saves us.

I understand that you don’t hold the Christian view so you don’t agree with what he said. But initially you said you wanted open chat but it was anything but that. You did not seek to understand his point of view. And while you claimed he rejected homosexuals, you completely rejected him.

Have we really reached a point where if people hold a different opinion we boycott their business and label them ‘phobes’? I’m quite disappointed in your journalism.

Schlukitz

What a crock of bullshit, Gnatgnat. Like we LGBT folks are expected to hold a “respectful” dialogue about whether queers should be put to death or not…and merely call it a “different opinion”?

Spin it any way that you like, but you are still in agreement with the creep who says that he “believes in the scriptures.”. How much plainer must he spell it out for you? Doh.

Calling for the death of a minority group, even if in veiled terms, seems to be perfectly acceptable to the likes of you.

Boycotting their businesses and calling them “phobes”, not so much.

How disingenuous can one get, I wonder?

http://www.facebook.com/george.norton.92 George Norton

what else from a whacky right wing organisation that now like the rest of christianity, is in it for what they can get out of it, finance.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1664732393 Jim Self

Ha! I laugh at their ignorance!!! I would run over them with my car as well, but I just got it washed!
http://twitter.com/InjunTrouble Susan

I don’t donate to any faith-based charities for 2 reasons: I’m religion-free and I’m not a homo-phobe.

http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

My Christian church fought for gay rights. We ordain gay and transgendered ministers, and were marrying gay folks before it it was legal (that is, we’d sanctify their marriage, and they could get married legally when the legal system came to its senses, which thank God, it did.)

We’re not all homophobes.

https://profiles.google.com/117974059556423415646 Chris

I’d really like to know the name of your church, hard to believe it.

http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

The United Church of Canada.

Sorry for the late reply. I’ve had some trouble replying. Not sure why.

LanceCS

Good for you.

That doesn’t change the fact that religion is a colossal threat for gay people.

http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

I don’t disagree. I am absolutely appalled by the behaviour of most Christian denominations, and gay people are wise to be leery of us. Honestly, the number of gay-friendly Christians is WAY too low. But some of us are working on it. Hard. That being said, my church is the largest Protestant denomination in Canada. Sadly, we’re not growing.

tony romo

First off thank you for all that you and your church have done for us. (more people need to say that). Also don’t lose hope, not all people think that religion is the root of all evil. I would also like to know the name of your church/faith, I would love to attend a mass where I was welcomed for who I am, and not just my money.
http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

I’m still having commenting problems, so my apologies if this comes through a second or third time.

It’s the United Church of Canada. And in my particular church, we’d tell you to let the collection plate pass. Visitors need not contribute.
LanceCS

Yes, I understand that there are religious people doing good work, but it is always silly to see people jump in with the classic “we are not all like that.”

We know this is not always the case, but we have endured hundreds of years of oppression based on religion and today it is still used as a tool.
http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

Fair enough. However, when some of us are working our asses off to be accepting and welcoming and open, for all people, we need to be vocal about it so that the bigots aren’t the only voices heard.

And honestly, some didn’t know this was the case. Chris, in this thread, wanted to know the name of the church because of how skeptical he was. So that’s why people like me pipe up. Not to get you all into pews – that’s not my goal. Just to spread a little love, and for once, have it come from a Christian source. We could use a little good publicity.

I truly truly am so sorry for the oppression gay folks (and so many others) have endured in the name of God. And so I’m working to at least try to make it right. I know that won’t happen in this lifetime. Or maybe ever. And that’s okay. I’ll still try.
Schlukitz

Luna, you are to be commended if you are working your ass off to be accepting and welcoming and open, for all people and being vocal about it. You have obviously chosen to do the right thing and there are those of us who appreciate your efforts.

Regarding Chris being skeptical and wanting to know the name of the church, given the open hostility that has been displayed for thousands of years by the Christians, in general, starting with the Pope on down, I think that it is only reasonable to ask the name of the church. All too often, Christians would have us believe that they are supportive of us…until they get us into their pews and then the “conversion therapy” begins if we wish to remain a member of that church.

So, I think that you will forgive us, after two-thousand years of oppression, bigotry and hatred being espoused and flung at the LGBT community by the “believers”, if we ask for some empirical evidence of the love that we are told that some Christians have for us. All too often, that love is lost in the din of hatred that still emanates from the majority of religions in the world.

Schlukitz

Taht’s all well and good, Luna, but you still have declined to name your Church.

I am prompted to ask why the secrecy? If your church is so accepting of gay rights, would they not want you and all of the members of their congregation to proclaim their position and be wiling to hold their hand up so that they can be seen…and counted?

http://feministchristian.blogspot.com/ Luna

Actually, I’ve tried several times – I wonder if it’s being screened because I’ve tried to put in links. It’s the United Church of Canada.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507500943 Mary Broussard

Doubt that

http://www.facebook.com/susan.arcoleo Susan Arcoleo

do they enjoy tax exemptions of any kind?
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000447312471 Mac Macaroo

I was a little curious as to who, exactly, is supposed to be in charge of dealing death to homosexuals. If it’s God, then since (according to the belief) he deals death to everyone, it seems the stance is without relevance. Everybody receives death; even the OT righteous, some of whom…like Job…are described as pure/clean/innocent in the eyes of God. No exceptions. So, how do homosexuals rate a listing in the especially condemned retribution column?

My next question is, where exactly does the biblical Jesus-called-Christ say anything whatsoever about homosexuality? If it’s that important you’d think there would be some mention of it by the star of the show, yes? There doesn’t seem to be any.

I guess that’s just one of those things that makes so many of us go, “Hmmm.”

Whatever. Despite my nostalgic attachment to the seasonal bell-ringer tradition here in the U.S., I haven’t given the S.A. a dime for upwards of fifteen years. There are too many other charities (religious and otherwise) willing to offer help without the gratuitous cherry picking tsk-tsk-ing.
ColleenPatriciaWilliams

Here’s the phone number for the Commander for the West:
562-491-4100
I called them, press one to get the Commander. I was polite, but I have been dead and back and I let them know they are dead friggin’ wrong!
If enough of us call and complain and boycott, they WILL change their tunes.
http://twitter.com/salivationarmy The Salivation Army

god im pretty sure i just threw up in my mouth
http://www.facebook.com/AshleyHasNoSceneName Ashley McCann

leviticus also says you cannot cut your hair…
KatePC

I think that CRAIBE put the belief system of the Salvation Army is the worst possible light.
Though scripture does say that “the wages of sin is death” it is not referring to the physical death of humans but rather the death of their relationship with the God who created them. In this same verse, “sin” is defined as any action that is not aligned with this same God’s standards. When we acknowledge the fact that when people do not engage in actions we believe are in unison with our personal ideals we cease to actively pursue a relationship with them, this “death” as a result of “sin” loses its dramatic punch.

The Salvation Army believes that homosexual activity will result in the death of a person’s relationship with their Creator and RYAN thinks this believe will result in the death of his relationship with the Salvation Army. Both have the right to their opinion; neither are the best representative of their position.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1470848701 Troi Valles

Such a shame. Just another example of the double edged sword of religion (specifically Christianity): It encourages people to donate and help people in need, but it also encourages prejudices and sometimes hatred.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Theresa-Darklady-Reed/581698361 Theresa ‘Darklady’ Reed

Well, thank goodness they’re Christians who want to kill us and not Muslims, huh? I’m sure that will make all the difference in the end.

Funny that I never hear Jews pushing this policy.
http://www.facebook.com/leeshee.wessel Leeshee Limpnoodle Wessel

This dude calls himself Christian!? Im a freaking Catholic and I have more gay friends than straight friends (even though I’m straight). My mom brought me up to accept and support gay people. I’ve always believed that being gay is just as ok as being straight. I don’t see wat the big deal is about it

LanceCS

Newsflash: Basically anyone can be a Christian. You don’t have a monopoly of the definition.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647584843 David Shelton

Last year, I scanned a $100 bill! I manipulated it where only 1/4″ of the bill at the end looked real (you know, like those trick bills people “drop” and when someone picks it up it’s a Christian invite, etc…) I then made a rainbow all across the bill and wrote on there, “Until the Salvation Army gives up it’s bigotry and homophobia against lesbians and gays, you’ll never see a real dollar from THIS gay!” I dropped in in about 100 buckets all over Gainesville, FL last Christmas. BOY you should have seen the faces of the bell ringers when all they saw was $100 going in the pot!
phendraana

Oh really? Is that why they’re busy discouraging condom use and opposing birth control, abortion, and sex ed? And promoting idiotic, nonsensical ideas like magic, miracles, & creationism? Science & medicine, my butt. I dunno what planet you live on where religion contributes positively to science & medicine, but it sure isn’t earth.
phendraana

When it’s a vile, poisonous opinion such as “gays deserve to die”, then YES.
phendraana

Because your religious beliefs are reprehensible. And don’t parrot vile biblical bullshit & end with a passive-aggressive “but I love you all!”, it’s so cheap.

Schlukitz

Yep yep. The “I love you all” is the disclaimer that makes all of the bigoted, hateful comments and despicable behavior acceptable and respected.

How anyone can respect an organization or religion that has no more respect for us than a butcher would have for ground beef, is totally beyond my comprehension.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1606880935 Stephen D Simmons

Well since I am Gay and I should be killed I guess my DONATIONS to the salvation army will also die…BOYCOTT THE SALVATION ARMY…WHEN THEY BEG FOR HELP THE COME RUNNING TO THE GAYS…WELL I AM OVER THEM!
TeufelWolf

If they are collecting in front of chain store, complain to the manager, and see if the store has a “no hate speech” policy.
http://www.facebook.com/kimberly.oconnor.3154 Kimberly O’Connor

wow, im never helping the salvation army EVER AGAIN, i’d rather donate my clothing and used items to a womens or children’s shelter rather then them.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003530529598 Tammy Watson Cecil

Who the hell does this guy think he is?!!!! AGAIN using the name of God to be hateful and bigoted…THAT’S WHAT YOU DO BEST! BIGOT BASTARD!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003530529598 Tammy Watson Cecil

YOU’RE FUNNY…….GREAT JOURNALISM…..YOU PROBABLY THINK SANDUSKY IS A GOOD GUY.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003530529598 Tammy Watson Cecil

TOLERANT TOWARDS GAYS….HMMM…TOLERANT…RELIGION WAS MADE TO CONTROL YOU……JUST LIKE GOVERNMENT.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003530529598 Tammy Watson Cecil

WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER HOLOCAUST!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003530529598 Tammy Watson Cecil

FROM YOU OWN VILE!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504848342 Ricky Allen Hawkins

It’s sad to see, and hear this garbage coming from an Organization that helps so many people in need. This is not the Christian way..this is not what Christianity is about. Christians are to love one another as Christ loved us! Craibe is obviously a hateful man caught up in some kinda of NON Christian cult..because I am a Christian, and I could never wish death upon anyone!! I don’t believe that God hates us or that we deserve death!! Yes I am gay, and a Christian I CAN be BOTH!! I know I have always donated to Salvation Army, well no more!! I will be contributing to other organizations that help people in need regardless of sexual preference,race,beliefs.. etc! Shame on The Salvation Army !!

Schlukitz

That people can be gay…and still support Christianity is mind-boggling.

Like oil and water. Never the two shall mix.

Larry M

I was a member of the sally ann for a number of years, around 15 I’m not gay, but we had a few gay people in our church… never heard of putting them to death for their sexual orientation??
The sally ann has doctrines, and I have never heard of this one being there. I would think it is a matter of interpretation. I have gay christian friends who are in the sally Ann, I’m not expecting them to die? this post is just crazy…
http://www.facebook.com/hxcsteve Stephen Longcoy

You guys should focus more on westboro
tony romo

Im a bit confused. I would agree that this article does fail to mention that the SA states that violence should never be used against people just because of their sexuality. I disagree with those who say that people are being to hard on them because this is just what they believe. beliefs influence actions, so if an organizations beliefs are negative or harmful to a person or group of people then it is in my opinion right for those people to expose the harmfulness of the belief system. remember the SA is not a person, they are an organization, and as such they influence and promote their belief (and the harm it causes) to others who may chose to ignore their stance on violence. 2nd I would like to ask why is the fact that the SA is a charity being used by some people to excuse them? just because they do some good does not mean that the organization should be excused for its wrongdoings, or that of its soldiers. last time I checked the Taliban helped fight the Russians, and set up several charitable projects. (this is a bit of a stretch) I know as the SA only spreads a harmful belief system, and the Taliban actually killed people, but a drastic example will hopefully get the point across that good intentions/actions do not erase bad ones.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3T2CB3IARM5F76NGDD53AC6454 easmachine

Methinks you protest too much. I’ve been associated with the Salvation Armys’ church off and on for going on 5 years. I’m not a Christian or religious, but I volunteer and I’ve never heard it preached that gays should be put to death.The idea that gays will die puts them in line with all of humanity, since everyone will die eventually.( What is most questionable is the Majors’ belief that he won’t.)

As an ex(briefly) homeless man, I have an appreciation for their work that most don’t have and am curious about the idea of sabotaging the Salvation Army kettles and boycotting donations.

That you don’t think that a christian organization should preach christianity is idiocy, though I respect anyones right not to support them. My question is what are you doing to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless, treat drug addiction etc…. The idea that the LBGT community is going to change the sally is ludicrous. It would be suicide for a christian organization that believes in the infallibility of the bible to start denying parts of it. I believe and support human rights for all, regardless of race gender religion etc…

The larger an organization, the more idiots will surface in positions of authority. However I’ve been in a Salvation Army emergency shelter that accommodated gays and transexuals without an problem. So discrimination is not a universally enforced principle for basic services.

Until the LBGT community decides that it can step in and shoulder the burden that the salvation army has taken, you guys are no better than they are. Being an atheist doesn’t have to mean being a hypocrite. And taking easy shots at the Salvation Army is bad strategy because they have helped too many people including non believers like myself. You guys just seem to be spoiling for a fight with someone who won’t punch back. You don’t get any points for that.
http://twitter.com/GothicHarajuku Angela Botticelli

I don’t understand how we can be fighting to be treated like equals but all I see in the comments is hate speech. It shouldn’t matter the religion, you know what’s wrong and right. What happened to love? We are asking for acceptance and tolerance but all I see on thi page is hate. No matter your views, on my side or not, your hate discredits you. Love one another.
equalitygal

This is a misrepresentation of Scripture and the conversation with the Salvation Army. Scripture says we are all worthy of death, and in fact, we all DO die. Who can argue with that. Christ came to save us from eternal death. It’s not about homosexuality in particular. Heterosexuals who engage in non-marital sex fall into the same exact category. So it is not speaking about homosexuality; it is speaking about sin.
People used to learn the 10 Commandments and understand them to show us what God considers sin. It should be clear to anyone who reads the Bible that no one can keep the 10 commandments; they were given to show us that we need God. The point is that we all need God.
If you don’t believe that, then that is why you cannot see the truth of Scripture.

Schlukitz

“The point is that we all need god.”

Disingenuous statement, if ever I saw one.

The truth is, the only people who seem to “need God”, are those who are seeking a reason and a cover for being bigoted, hateful homophobes.

“nuff said.

http://www.facebook.com/antonio.favorito.9 Antonio Favorito

my mum was an Catholic nun and she sill an strong Catholic and her two kids me and my sis are gay and she fully a accept and love us
http://www.argonauticos.blogspot.com/ jason

Wow…well, this has opened my eyes. That’s for sure. Won’t be supporting them either.
Schlukitz

Thank you, Luna, for the name of your church. Sorry to hear that you are having problems with posting. I’ve noticed that several of my comments have been duplicated. Must be a glitch of some sort on this site.
johanvincent

Let me start by informing you that I live in the second
largest Gay community in the world. I have wonderful gay friends and colleagues
and am involved in the Gay community supporting outreach programs and all kinds
of health and social services. I am not religious, though I am well rounded in
religious studies. I discovered your website through a Facebook link a friend
posted, and listened to the recorded interview so I could be outraged. I’m
outraged alight but by your insufferable intolerance. Yup, you read me right,
YOUR intolerance.

You are correct there is no salvation in the Salvation Army
for you if you are Gay. It is a Christian organization, and by that definition
homosexuality is against the laws of God. To be a Soldier of the Salvation Army
you must be a practicing Christian.

That does not affect support, employment or association,
only full membership as a soldier. That is the case for any Christian
organization. This particular organization you have chosen to attack is
responsible for helping MILLIONS of people worldwide. How many people have you
helped by being Gay?

The Christian faith believes homosexuality is a sin. You
don’t have the right to attack people because of their faith. Imagine if a Christian radio station called up
a Gay organization and attacked them on the air, there would be OUTRAGE. Of
course, real Christians wouldn’t do that because in their faith it is also
wrong to judge. The “dogma” you refer to are the beliefs of that faith. Need I
point out that murder and hate are also sins? Why don’t you join weight
watchers so you can have another go at Christians about gluttony being a sin?

The reference in Romans referring to “deserving death” does
not mean or equate to “should be killed”. It means that not following Gods laws
results in failure to be welcomed into heaven and eternal life, and thus
“death” is the conclusion rather than eternal life. These are Gods rules that
Christians follow, not something that Christians get to debate and change. It’s
not a co-op, it’s a religion and you are free not to follow it, just as you
should accept anyone else is free to follow it.

You should be ashamed at the way you have dissected the
texts of a religion you don’t even practice, misunderstood them, and tried to
use that to humiliate and corner a completely descent and respectful sounding
person on the air. Your website says, and I quote “It’s the fact that
the Salvation Army’s own inter-company literature calls for the death
of gay people.” No it doesn’t. What you are doing is a disservice to the LGBT
community. Be gay, accept others that are not, practice whatever religion you
want and leave others to do the same. Failing that, please have a go at the
Muslims next and see how that works out for you, ok?

PS-Ryan, it is about love. If you
believed in eternal life and knew the path to get there, wouldn’t you do
everything you could to influence the people you love to go that way? Think
about it.
http://www.facebook.com/bruce.turner.102361 Bruce Turner

Since when did being gay or bi stop being a choice I can choose to be what I want to be My mind can’t tell the difference between what I believe is true and what is really true.So if I believe I’m gay I am if not I’m not. All life is meaningless unless my choice to put a meaning on it gives it a meaning. So if I say that I’m gay or bi because of my DNA or my attractions then I’ll believe that and for me it will be true but is it really true? I know many fem men who choose to be non gay get married have children believe in God go to church etc. are they gay and believing there not? It’s their choice to be whatever they want and in their heart they are doing the right thing so don’t give me this BS that a person is born gay we are the product of the programming and conditioning of all life choices and experiences that we put meaning on that has lead to our conclusions.
Bruce Turner

Schlukitz

You are so full of shit that it is oozing out of your ears. You, a layman, are telling everyone in the medical and scientific world that they are wrong. No surprise, however, since you believe in sky-daddies, the buy-bull and the religious clap-trap you’ve been spoon-fed all of your.

But, that’s all besides the point. What did your comment have to do with the Salvation Army Media Relations Director stating that “Gays should be put to death” have to do with whether one is born gay or not? And if one “chooses” to be gay as many of you buy-bull-shit haters like to say, does that make what he said acceptable?

Stay focused, man and post comments that are relevant to the topic.

http://www.facebook.com/spiritbear418 Anita SweetSpirit Haywood

Just wondering if this is really true. If so the Salvation Army will lose a lot of patrons. I am going to do some research.

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